Curse

Res Ipsi · Jun 19, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by knockturnal

What I have a problem with is these same people being able to access everything that someone who spends hours playing can obtain. While some may have a problem with that, I ultimately think that the dedicated players are what makes Anet the cash, far moreso than the casual.

You made a number of excellent points, and I am by no means dismissing them by focusing on this particular statement; but it gets to the heart of what many posters seem to take issue with. Both casual and dedicated players (and I include myself in the latter group) paid the same money for the base product, and no one pays a monthly fee. Dedicated players are those who have stuck around since the early days, and in many ways, got more than their money's worth from the game. I have no problem with newer players having easier access to goodies I got through grind (e.g., Fissure armor), and for the life of me, I can't imagine why anyone else would. It's a virtual world full of virtual goodies - plain and simple. I can see this kind of resentment over something like a recent college grad making 2X what you're (generic "you", not you specificially) making despite your having the same degree and years of experience under your belt, but this is a game. It doesn't matter. What matters is whether you got what you paid for.
To be honest, I think a lot of the angst from the "dedicated" rank and file comes from the realization that in ANet's eyes, you're just another paying customer. Sure, there are big whales among us; but like any casino in Las Vegas, your money is as good as the unwashed masses.

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 19, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Fact:
1. Guild Wars is 3 years old.
2. Guild Wars is not the same game it was 3 years ago.
3. Some people don't like and won't accept the changes.
4. Some people are not bothered by the changes.
5. Some people like the changes.
6. ANET is creating a new game (GW2) because they say they are limited
by what they can do with the current game engine.
7. Making threats about what you will or will not do if ANET doesn't make
a game to your liking is counter productive.

I have played Guild Wars for 3 years. I am not a great player. I have all 3 Chapters and GWEN, I have only beaten Prophecies & Factions with 1 character. I have 1 max title. I don't farm except on special drop weekends. I have been to FoW 2 times and never been to UW. The only way I got an ecto was to trade a guild mate a shard because he never got a shard. There are times when PvE becomes uninteresting and then I just go do AB for a while. The most gold I have ever had was about 120K and that was after 2-1/2 years of playing. I have never played any game for more than 6 months until GW came along. Having said all this, I feel if I quit today I have more than gotten my moneys worth. I know that everyone would like to see Guild Wars 1 to be what it was in the beginning, but it can't for after 3 years and a new game on the way, I think we just have to be happy with what we have had and hope GW2 is all we hope it can be.

Bryant Again · Jun 19, 2008, 07:27 PM // 19:27

"GW1 isn't the game it used to be" not because we've "grown out of it" but because it has indeed taken a change in a different direction. We're concerned about why ANet decided to go ahead and take that change, a change in the generic and non-unique direction, and if this is what we can expect from GW2. We don't want another game that can be beaten just by leveling up.

Damian979 · Jun 19, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

I'm not one of the 3 yr veterans but I was fortunate(or unfortunate) enough to start early enough to appreciate the balance this game had to offer. I loved the fact that maxing your level was only about 1/10th of the game and the other 90% involved aquiring skills and most importantly LEARNING TO USE THEM.

I loved the fact that seemingly "godlike" players were just using the same skills available to everyone else only with extreme efficiency thus making them seem "godlike".
I loved the first time I ever did The Great North Wall at lvl5 and had a lvl 20 Warr(wish I could remember his name) help me. When it came time to run back to the gate he calmly said "You know the way?" and stayed to fight the (at the time seemingly insurmountable) hordes of Charr that took chase. The next thing he said was "all dead". I remember thinking "my god how did he do that?" I now love helping new players do that same mish, staying to fight the same Charr, and always finishing with the same "all dead".
It was moments like this that made me love this game and play it fanatically.

This letter says everything that needs to be said about a game that once seemed overwhelmingly deep. A game that was constantly improving and growing like a living entity all to itself. A game that now is reduced to re-hashing the same content , hours of grinding repetitious actions just to have what? Another title for "status" only to be cut off at the knees when GW2 comes out? What is the new generation of players supposed to do knowing that the "long haul titles" are just too far out of reach because the game has been reduced to "how much can I slam out before GW2 hits the shelf", PvP is nothing more than a closed elitist community, and H/H groups are better than actual people because the "godlike" players have been replaced by glowing bear animations?

I don't even know that it isn't too late to reverse the direction GW has gone, but if it is at all possible, I would love to have the game I fell in love with back.

DreamWind · Jun 19, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manitoba1073

second I never said I liked all the changes they made in the last yr, still doesnt change the fact with the recent skill seperation that they arent trying to fix it. Thats exactly what they are trying to do.

And if you are a true youd see that yes they made mistakes here and there but overall it is still good.

I don't think you are understanding what some people are trying to say.

We don't care about all the minor mistakes Anet made over the years (at least I don't). There have been plenty of those, and even their "fixes" have created more problems. The PvP/PvE split frankly solved almost none of the PvP players issues so far. Anet's trend in implementing bad "patches" for their created problems while in itself scary, and perhaps a predictor of future behavior of Anet, is not the big picture here.

The big picture is when Anet made their biggest mistake of all...changing the entire direction of their game. Ursan is not the only problem here. The only reason people bring up Ursan constantly is because it is the big shining beacon for what has become of this game...an overpowered grinder.

These facts are staring us all right in the face. I don't see how you can possibly say they are trying to fix things. Anet has essentially come out and said they have no plans to change it, and that is very worrysome for anybody even considering buying anything from Anet again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manitoba1073

Yes choices are good. It allows for more people to enjoy the game in different ways and yes that is a good thing.

Choices are not always a good thing, especially in this case. The changes made to the game have created a culture of players who could care less about the uniqueness of Guild Wars.

The very option in itself has removed the uniqueness of Guild Wars. It DOESN'T matter whether or not you choose to use it...a bunch of other people do. What matters is the fact its sheer existence has changed the game completely.

It is almost like saying you have a choice to ignore global warming. Sure...of course you do. That doesn't mean the problem facing the world (or in this case the game) isn't there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

I was also very surprised by Regina's lack of responsiveness when I pointed her to the wrong url link to the GW client download page. And, though I gave her the time to settle and find her place, like most people have done, I'm disappointed by the new community RELATIONSHIP, I feel it's died when Gaile left.

I know CR are doing their job, maybe better given that it's now a team, but from my end of the word "community", the link is pretty much dead. I feel that's what Rahja tried to express, but furthermore highlighting the fact that this CR move by Anet may be as important as adding heroes or separating PvE and PvP. IMHO (people will disagree) Gaile was part of GW's depth.

I disagree 100%. There is a good chunk of the community (particularly most of the PvP community) that have always thought that Anet's community relations were insufficient. In fact, there was a rather large thread a while back with posts from people like JR that specifically pointed out all the problems with Anet's CR in detailed fashion, and many people agreed with that thread just as many agreed with this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Not always. What ANet has done here has catered partly to the MMO crowd, the same crowd who wants GW turned into a WoWlite, the same people who want mounts, peristancy, high levels, "leet loot", and who can't understand why they keep losing at difficult missions ("I has 15k armor and has been playin for so long, I shouldn't be losin'!"). They don't want GW to be GW, they want GW to be WoW. They don't appreciate GW for it's uniqueness, for the game it really is.

When ANet offered the "option" to grind through the content in generic MMO fashion, their game was no longer unique, and they showed they are willing to listen to a very immature minority of players.

So, no. Providing new alternatives isn't always a great thing, since what ANet has done has changed the direction of their game into something it's not.

This post really was excellent and got me thinking about the WoW point again. People need to understand that Guild Wars is NOT competing with WoW...not anywhere even remotely close. Its not even in the same ballpark. Comparing the amount of WoW subscribers compared to Guild Wars buyers is completely out of the question. The average person knows what WoW is, but has never heard of Guild Wars.

Why does that matter? It matters because of a KEY point Avarre brought up that not many have discussed. Anet CAN NOT compete with WoW on WoW's terms, and the direction of their game tells us that they are attemping it. Guild Wars 2 in itself is a statement that they are going to try and compete.

This is a problem. Anet really needed to find their own niche market while still attracting the typical MMORPG/WoW crowd with no monthly fees. And they did that in the beginning. That is what made their game successful and that is what sustained them. Now with their changes of direction, I honestly sense some problems in the future. It really sucks too, because I loved this game. I loved it a LOT. And now well...well you know how I feel.

samifly · Jun 19, 2008, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

things

I agree with all of your points. A great post.

Carinae · Jun 19, 2008, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You can't fight in here, this is the WAR ROOM!

W.T.H. What's the world coming to when I can't fight in the War Room anymore.

And why is Inde appearing in red instead of purple?

Lord Sojar · Jun 19, 2008, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Sorry to hear about your condition Rahja. Hope you seek out the help it sounds like you need.

I did, the help was within me. But that means a lot, thanks. Continuing with this bit and great discussion now that the nasty portions have been delete cannoned by Inde!

I honestly think that Guild Wars is an evolving game. To some, these evolutions might seem a bit... unfavorable. To others, the changes are favorable and certainly enjoyed.

I sent Inde a PM when I returned this evening after a long day of inner thought and talking things out with my fiancée and mother (who is a recovering cocaine addict and alcoholic, 8 years under her belt, and fighting cancer and hep C to boot, she is one tough cookie) I figure, if she can do it, I can too. I am as tough as nails. So, enough about that, I don't want to be seen as a complainer, because I most certainly am not at this point. My problems are my own, and I will crush them.

Here is a section of the PM I sent to Inde:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

I find joy in bettering the Guru community and Guild Wars community as a whole, and I always have. That won't change just because some people have a bad attitude. I have seen the fire and the rain (good lord, I am quoting songs), and this community we have is both wonderful and horrible. They have their moments of pure kindness and joy, and they have their moments of hatred and malice. This is the way life is, valleys and hills. I like the hills myself, but you have to climb to get to the top.

Our community is a very dynamic one. This thread, again, shows that we truly care about the game. Some defend it valiantly, others degrade it. The fact is though, those that find fault in the game and post about it only shows they care.

I love this thread, because like my "Enough is Enough" thread, it has valid, real reasons why the game is worse, and it also has valid, real reasons the game is still as wonderful if not better then when it was launched. The fact is, we are what makes Guild Wars what it is. Our voices in this thread are heard by Arena Net, and I honestly believe they take it to heart. When they see their fans and supporters fighting for what they believe the game should be or is, and why it is good or bad, I think it shows them exactly what I said; we care. So keep debating, but don't argue among yourselves. Healthy debate is a wonderful thing to have, and we don't have to attack each other just because our views are different. We share one common thing that we can all gather around; we care about Guild Wars. That doesn't mean you like the game, or you love it, that just means you care, or you wouldn't post in this manner.

That being said, I find some aspects of the game brilliant. I think the book concept should be expanded on. I think the Mini Moa journal quest was brilliant and creative, and showed true creative spirit. I think, despite heated battles, that the PvE skills added an entirely new dynamic to the game. Was the way they were implemented perfect? No. Could it have been done better? Yes, absolutely. Is Guild Wars still fun? I think so, but just after 3+ years, it has become a bit old and tattered. I think Guild Wars 2 will reinvigorate me to the series, and will bring in many new fans. I think Arena Net is learning from their mistakes, and they are better for it. This type of thread, provided it is kept civil and reasonable, helps ANET. They know it, I know it, and I honestly believe you all know it too.

To deny we have differences of play style is to deny that we are individuals. As has been stated and will be stated for the rest of eternity... You cannot please everyone. There are somethings we cannot change, but as a community, we can change more than we can individually. Always remember that Arena Net, despite changes they make to the game that may or may not be to your liking, are still changes. Changes means that they still care about the game, and any change should be looked at in at least that tiny bit of positive light.

Remember, we are a community, and we must always stick together no matter our differences, because if we are posting about this game and defending either side of the argument, it shows we all have a common bond; we care about the game and the future path it will follow.

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 20, 2008, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

I did, the help was within me. But that means a lot, thanks. Continuing with this bit and great discussion now that the nasty portions have been delete cannoned by Inde!

I honestly think that Guild Wars is an evolving game. To some, these evolutions might seem a bit... unfavorable. To others, the changes are favorable and certainly enjoyed.

I sent Inde a PM when I returned this evening after a long day of inner thought and talking things out with my fiancée and mother (who is a recovering cocaine addict and alcoholic, 8 years under her belt, and fighting cancer and hep C to boot, she is one tough cookie) I figure, if she can do it, I can too. I am as tough as nails. So, enough about that, I don't want to be seen as a complainer, because I most certainly am not at this point. My problems are my own, and I will crush them.

Here is a section of the PM I sent to Inde:

Our community is a very dynamic one. This thread, again, shows that we truly care about the game. Some defend it valiantly, others degrade it. The fact is though, those that find fault in the game and post about it only shows they care.

I love this thread, because like my "Enough is Enough" thread, it has valid, real reasons why the game is worse, and it also has valid, real reasons the game is still as wonderful if not better then when it was launched. The fact is, we are what makes Guild Wars what it is. Our voices in this thread are heard by Arena Net, and I honestly believe they take it to heart. When they see their fans and supporters fighting for what they believe the game should be or is, and why it is good or bad, I think it shows them exactly what I said; we care. So keep debating, but don't argue among yourselves. Healthy debate is a wonderful thing to have, and we don't have to attack each other just because our views are different. We share one common thing that we can all gather around; we care about Guild Wars. That doesn't mean you like the game, or you love it, that just means you care, or you wouldn't post in this manner.

That being said, I find some aspects of the game brilliant. I think the book concept should be expanded on. I think the Mini Moa journal quest was brilliant and creative, and showed true creative spirit. I think, despite heated battles, that the PvE skills added an entirely new dynamic to the game. Was the way they were implemented perfect? No. Could it have been done better? Yes, absolutely. Is Guild Wars still fun? I think so, but just after 3+ years, it has become a bit old and tattered. I think Guild Wars 2 will reinvigorate me to the series, and will bring in many new fans. I think Arena Net is learning from their mistakes, and they are better for it. This type of thread, provided it is kept civil and reasonable, helps ANET. They know it, I know it, and I honestly believe you all know it too.

To deny we have differences of play style is to deny that we are individuals. As has been stated and will be stated for the rest of eternity... You cannot please everyone. There are somethings we cannot change, but as a community, we can change more than we can individually. Always remember that Arena Net, despite changes they make to the game that may or may not be to your liking, are still changes. Changes means that they still care about the game, and any change should be looked at in at least that tiny bit of positive light.

Remember, we are a community, and we must always stick together no matter our differences, because if we are posting about this game and defending either side of the argument, it shows we all have a common bond; we care about the game and the future path it will follow.

Very eloquently stated Rahja. We are a community and as such we are made up of many different types of people. I think the binding element is we all have some type of attachement to Guild Wars, whether it be love, hate or a combination of both. We should agree to disagree in a polite and civil manner, starting with myself. Guild Wars is the one thing we all have in common, let's not lose sight of that.

pumpkin pie · Jun 20, 2008, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

First, I'd have to ask: why do you need people to keep playing the game? It's an RPG, not an MMO. You're supposed to pick it up, finish it, be done with it.

Its a competitive online role playing game actually, if you want to nick pick regarding what genre the game is, might I remind you it still has a massive amount (4 millions according to guildwars.com) of players online and you can play it with multiple players :P~ so whatever you want to call it...

Plus, you should know why and what my answer is from all my "defending Guild Wars post" :P~, I find the game extremely interesting and fun to play AS MUCH AS THE FIRST DAY I INSTALLED IT, who cares what genre it is? What I don't like is (read my above post)

PS: I am speaking for myself here, you want other peoples view, you've to ask them.

manitoba1073 · Jun 20, 2008, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

YEAPPERS

Thats good to hear, A few of us here and ST forums lost a friend not long ago ourselfs in IRAQ got another friend getting ready to head out there in a couple months. Told him if he ends up making my A$$ having to go back there just for him Id kick him like a dog the whole way back.

Yes Ive been there done that. Its almost as fun as GW PvP was in the beginning.

Unfortuanately my comp is also having some problems thanxs to my nieces using it lol, yes its a bad thing guess Ill have to tickle them for awhile for punishment. So hopefully Ill get more out. Which prolly is a virus they got on here. Cant really do anything as it has my server for another game on it. Once I get my new power supply for my one comp and a new MB for the other one then I can put the server on the one that needs a MB and give them this old workhorse lol.

Back to topic.

Pumpkin- its actually more closer to 1.250 million players those are games sold only not actual accounts.

Rahja- Yes it is evolving game. Guess you can really say its L3ARN TO AD4PT time for folks. Which is why I am saying options is good. I hope anet adds in a switch for players who want PvP mode in PvE. It have to work something along these lines but it would be doable I think.

At log in player decides if they want PvP mode or PvE mode. Sets the game so that if a player chooses PvP mode the skills are all set to PvP and no PvE skills are availiable and the limit to heros and henchies also apply. To prevent abuse of switching between for say like farming purposes the player would be limited to just 3 changes and the 3rd one being permanant. Players would be able to group with other players using different modes those on PvP mode would not be affected by consumables even if someone in PvE mode were to use one. Though I highly doubt the QQ would even do iteven though thats basically what they want, which brings me back to the arguement with Snow Bunny of its not really the problems of the skills but a problem of the players.

No matter how much QQ the Ursan haters want to admit it,but ursan isnt overpowered. Its not till you hit the break point of 3+ in a group and then they need major healing. Then it doesnt even hit super stardom status till those of us experienced players use it. They way a person uses a skill has just as much impact as the skill itself has.

Same with Shadow Form. It was Permabale before the update for a long time. Yet all of a sudden is supposedly a problem.

So true that the community is a diverse one. However the individuals that just cant be wrong regardless of the evidence is the spoilers ( see the req 7 thread) And the threats about not starting another topic about it. Yeap thats right, As seen in this thread with threats if you dont aggree your Worthless.

Dreamwind- GW was always about options. Thats what made it great. But then Anet started removing the options, now we've come back full circle to where they are giving the options. And yes its your choice. Try making it sometimes its a good thing. Just say NO.

Bryant- Anet stepped out of the unique long long ago. They reason why It seems I keep repeating myself is because its true. Choice is good. Allowing people to have different play styles is what set GW apart from WoW. Restricting those playstyles is what hurt GW. If Anet had done it by not limiting players like they did I'd bet they would have even topped WoW by now.

They have a long and bitter ways to go to fix that and finally they are getting to it.

Avarre · Jun 20, 2008, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Pumpkin- its actually more closer to 1.250 million players those are games sold only not actual accounts.

I think we all have to agree the number will be even lower due to people leaving the game, and accounts being inactive. Then again, some people only buy one chapter so that could raise the number. I doubt ANet would release exact details of active (used within, say, 1 week) accounts, but it would be interesting to see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Restricting those playstyles is what hurt GW. If Anet had done it by not limiting players like they did I'd bet they would have even topped WoW by now.

I agree (except for maybe the topping WoW part). However, if overpowered skills had not been added and flaws in game design hadn't created areas like DoA, or resulted in class bias, players would have more, equally viable options. You shouldn't have to use to a certain skill to complete any area.

And yes, having health boost, armor boost, condition and armor-ignoring attacks is rather overpowered. So are a lot of the other PvE skills. While Ursan might only get extremely powerful in numbers, on a straight level of comparison it is pretty ridiculous for how completely simple it is.

Fril Estelin · Jun 20, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Remember, we are a community, and we must always stick together no matter our differences, because if we are posting about this game and defending either side of the argument, it shows we all have a common bond; we care about the game and the future path it will follow.

I would go one step further and stress the fact that communities/societies are rapidly becoming the core of modern computing applications. Look at social networking (facebook) and social gaming (friends for sale), MMO are only one facet of this. Any gaming (and computing) company that wants to live long has to have some sort of community management and relationship, and GW was IMHO one of the few groundbreaker, and whatever you say about Gaile, you have to admit she was completely part of that.

A community can organise itself, up to a certain point. GWG is the perfect example of that: it's the Marketplace that GW never had, it's the Sardelac that inspired devs, it's the place where to understand what is hot and what is not. But after a while, social relationships naturally deteriorates, small problems become big ones, trolling becomes rampant and positive attitudes get burried under the unrelated comments and one-liners/+1s. That's where a CR has a power, be it practical (ability to refocus a debate, correct information or create events where players meet and feel part of the community, or feel "heard" by Anet) or abstract (few people met their CR but the fact that they exist give them hopes that the community is heard, that the company is not a robot, that the company values take the player at its heart), and that power IMHO went down in a manner similar to what the OP described for the game design.

Gaile was part of GW's depth and pointing at "carebears", a.k.a. people who suposedly want to be "buddy buddy", will not change a thing about that. I can also say that similarly many of the important GWG posters (Rahja, you're definitely one of them!) play the exact same role, but from the other side of the Anet/community divide (we're not paid, we do that for free). Of course, many will point out that it's actually not "what we paid for" or "good reasons for downplaying us", but it's the way the world is going nowadays. While we see GW as our game, it's Anet and we're now at the point where the accumulation of decisions has lead us to discussions like these. They're not just "yet another abstract discussion about game design", they're the materialisation of the current situation: a few players with strong views surrounded by trolls and a wide range of playing profiles colliding, while the CR posts one message and we realise that GWG may no longer be the place where Anet and its team are talking to the community.

Avarre · Jun 20, 2008, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

They're not just "yet another abstract discussion about game design", they're the materialisation of the current situation: a few players with strong views surrounded by trolls and a wide range of playing profiles colliding, while the CR posts one message and we realise that GWG may no longer be the place where Anet and its team are talking to the community.

And that is horrendous. That is abominable. Players should not have to take their suggestions to the CR, it is the CR's job, that they are paid for, to find and filter out suggestions and feedback and bring them to the devs.

It always concerns me that when the CR's job is to organize and filter feedback, if they don't fully understand the game, the right stuff isn't going to be emphasized or sent through. Gaile's little ranger was nice and all, but I'd have been more confident if she was an active end-game player. I don't know about Regina.

Fril Estelin · Jun 20, 2008, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

but I'd have been more confident if she was an active end-game player. I don't know about Regina.

You don't need confidence, you've gone through almost all of the game, experienced pretty much everything there's in it and now you'd like more depth. You don't need a CR, you need to talk to devs and game designers.

And if buddy-buddy stuff is not your cup of tea, that doesn't mean that others should drink what you're drinking. But please, try not to downplay "us" as carebears, I surely won't say you're whining. There are many sides to the depth of GW, and CR is/was one of them.

Age · Jun 20, 2008, 06:01 AM // 06:01

I wouldn't say Anet cators to the all mighty pvp crowd like it use to be or this forum wouldn't be dead like it is now and [IQ],[WM],[Evil] and [TE] would all still be around as they were the big guilds on the ladder.

This forum calls players over here being pve carebears.I first registered and started posting on that board when it was mainstream.

The Home of PvP

I still need to read Avarre's long letter.Btw Regina hasn't even bothered to go over and say hi and that use to an Elite Fansite and had most of The Alpha testors on it who most worked for Anet I believe.

I liked the split in the skills at first but thinking now I would say it was bad thing to do the only skills I like was LoD but it still not balanced properly.

Avarre · Jun 20, 2008, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

You don't need confidence, you've gone through almost all of the game, experienced pretty much everything there's in it and now you'd like more depth. You don't need a CR, you need to talk to devs and game designers.

Devs should not have to be the ones communicating with players. If they had to listen to all the generic rage and bad feedback, they'd probably just stop developing altogether. The CR is there to act as the buffer between devs and players, and save the devs time by trawling through forums and other sources of feedback. Sure, it would be great if devs could take time off to talk to the community more (Izzy does this!), but I expect the CR to speak for them.

Age, besides guild-hall.net, the iQ forums were a major PvP discussion area, as well as, to a slight extent, if you read only some of the posts, the QQ forums. All had better PvP discussion than Guru, but that was largely due to a higher concentration of top-tier players.

Age · Jun 20, 2008, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Yeah .I know about those boards as well as The Furies boards The hosted Guild Wars Karactor Builder better than PvX it was hosted by Deviant.TE had good boards to.

Fril Estelin · Jun 20, 2008, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Devs should not have to be the ones communicating with players

You didn't get my point so I'll make it explicit: Regina clearly said that devs are listening to some players, well then you should be one of them.

Quote:

If they had to listen to all the generic rage and bad feedback, they'd probably just stop developing altogether. The CR is there to act as the buffer between devs and players, and save the devs time by trawling through forums and other sources of feedback. Sure, it would be great if devs could take time off to talk to the community more (Izzy does this!), but I expect the CR to speak for them.

IMHO CR is much more than a "buffer", though this is probably initially what it feels like. I captures both side of the arguments and enables communication. It's a medium of communication by itself, and as I said before, I believe that this medium is richer if it takes into account the emotional side of playing GW. Of course within reasonable and workable limits, raging/flaming is out of the loop (and this is btw GWG's problem now, it's become a very poor discussion forum).

I know the "gamer" point of view that basically says that a game is just a game, with its graphics and mechanics and the rest is superfluous. But this is an artificial limit that you impose on MMOs, some use them as IMs, proof that it's a social tool. Anyway, I don't want to derail your thread any more, so I'm out.

Akaraxle · Jun 20, 2008, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

PvP is nothing more than a closed elitist community,

Disagree here: it's more of a rotting community.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

No matter how much QQ the Ursan haters want to admit it,but ursan isnt overpowered. Its not till you hit the break point of 3+ in a group and then they need major healing.

Yes, yes it is. The sole fact that you can use a zealous weapon to fuel it without drawbacks, because your energy regeneration is set to -2, already breaks the intended balance.
About it being strong in numbers, it's exactly the same as Soul Reaping -- and the latter was heavily nerfed.